December 9, 2005
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Happy Holidays
It just kind of crept on me in the past few days that the holiday season is now upon us in full force. I do not know if it was the fact my wife asked me to go hear Handel’s Messiah at the St. Paul Cathedral tonight, or that I continue to hear people scream on Fox News about how secular humanists and atheists are making a stink about the Holiday Season, Mangers, Christmas etc. It brings me to an idea that I have thought about for a long time and really have landed in an area where I would not have expected when I was in high school.
I am a huge separation of Church and State person. Let us glance at the first amendment of the Constitution:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
So, the fact that people are arguing for mangers in public buildings just seems to me to go against the document that governs our country. It is easy for Christians to support mangers in schools when Christians are in the majority in our country. Let us now imagine a day when you live in a school district that is all Muslim or any other religion you do not agree with. Would you want a display of Mecca in the school courtyard? No, probably not. So, why do we force Christmas on Muslim’s, Jews, and people of other faiths? Ridiculous. It is easy when you are in the majority to tell the minority what you think is right. Just a thought, or two. JVD
Comments (13)
Golf Rocks!
Preach it!
i am so glad i’m not the only person that sees it that way! i thought for sure the AFA was sending me to hell.
I don’t think you are alone FD, I think many don’t know that this is a legitemate line of thought, because most would say, “if you don’t go along you are not Christian….” or something crazy along those lines…
If we had a decent ecclesiology, the issue would resolve itself. ‘Church State separation’ (or not) is biblically an irrelevance. We’d actually be in the world without needing to fight (or having the means to fight) over artificial symbols in public places. Heaven. Don’t you think so?
Thorsten
Thorsten - boy you are truly back now, even commenting on blogs! Yes, I agree with you 100%. I will add, if we actually were busy loving others, we would have zero time to worry about these issues. I bring it up because I think I represent the silent majority of people who might want to voice what I am voicing. But, I could be just part of the silent minority – either way, wanted to throw it out there. How would these issues be handled in Germany? I realize we are directing this discussion from a USA standpoint, but you being from Germany, what do you think? JVD
I have to agree with Thorston. The only thing is that we don’t have a decent ecclesiology and there is a separation. I don’t know that we can just change everything around by fixing our own ecclesiology. How do we begin to straighten out this thing? That is the big question I think? I have to have an accurate ecclesiology, but also act from the knowledge that we have gotten so far off base that some how I have to be part of swinging this thing back in line. That is insanesly more difficult.
For those of you not familiar with Ecclesiology, the definition is:
ec·cle·si·ol·o·gy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-klz-l-j)
n.
<LI>The branch of theology that is concerned with the nature, constitution, and functions of a church.
<LI>The study of ecclesiastical architecture and ornamentation.
Joe,
C’mon you know the best way to have people love Jesus is not to live an attractive life marked by love. It’s way easier to force people.
Get your swords and get ready for the new 21st century crusades!
-Maas
Yeah. Maas is right. What was I thinking. Sign me up.
T.
Joseph – about Germany: Unfortunately Germany is a horrible model to base ecclesiology on. In a sense it proves the point: The more institutionalization of the church you have, the more bizarre the relationship between church and state. For instance, if you want to become a Lutheran Pastor there you study theology at a university, not a seminary. That leads to all sorts of mutual schmoozing up betwen church and state, usually resulting in a massive watering down of any remnants of subversive Gospel living. Ironically, though, if there was no institutionalized church, studying theology at the university would not be a problem. It could even become a model for doing theology in the world. For me the problem is not the abtract question of church and state – for me what matters is to take church as an institution out of the game entirely and the issue disappears. Let’s have true communities instead – and they don’t need to be institutionalized. In fact, true communities, to my knowledge, don’t survive institutionalization.
Some gentle thoughts, emanating from my post-operative haze…
T
Joseph – I meant to add: I was in no way criticizing you for raising the issue. Quite the opposite, it’s important!! I’m just offering a personal view as to how to deal with it.
T
T-man, I didn’t think you were. I also appreciate hearing a different cultural perspective as well. I am glad that you have a post-operative haze! Good to have you back. JVD